if a state tried to secede today...

[bryantm3]

...what do you think would happen? would the white house send in national guard troops and declare martial law? would they just let them secede? would they immediately be invaded by russia?

[Deckard]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

...what do you think would happen? would the white house send in national guard troops and declare martial law? would they just let them secede? would they immediately be invaded by russia?

If it's an oil-rich state like Texas, maybe they would be allowed to go their own way - then covertly destabilized, and if that didn't work, invaded!

OK, serious answer: I reckon it would all hang on how the secession occurred. If there was also a strong unionist movement and if it turned nasty, which is quite possible - people tend to have very strong feelings about this sort of thing - then yes, I can easily see martial law being declared. These days, the word "stability" is the politician's most useful tool.

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

...what do you think would happen? would the white house send in national guard troops and declare martial law? would they just let them secede? would they immediately be invaded by russia?

No, in this information saturated world we've become, many would think out loud, "Wow, what a bold move!" (think, balls) And then there would be, like, hints of Presidential aspirations. But not like a sitcom. Maybe.

[stimpee]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

...what do you think would happen?
would the white house send in national guard troops and declare martial law?
would they just let them secede?
would they immediately be invaded by russia?

depends on which state it was (i.e. Texas, California, Florida, New York) Big ones have more power. Russia? Funny.

[BrotherLovesDub]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

would the white house send in national guard troops and declare martial law?

this is a big theory among batshit crazy, racist, ignorant republicans and tea party mental patients.

personally, i wish Western Washington and Oregon could secede from the rest of this shit hole. either that or the entire southeast USA needs to split off and form their own inbred, science hating country.

[Strawman]

Originally Posted by Deckard

If it's an oil-rich state like Texas, maybe they would be allowed to go their own way - then covertly destabilized, and if that didn't work, invaded!

OK, serious answer: I reckon it would all hang on how the secession occurred. If there was also a strong unionist movement and if it turned nasty, which is quite possible - people tend to have very strong feelings about this sort of thing - then yes, I can easily see martial law being declared. These days, the word "stability" is the politician's most useful tool.

I think you got it right in the first paragraph.....

[Strangelet]

I'd say there's a 1 in 3 chance that there won't be violent civil unrest (*WONT*) in US cities over the next year, something akin to what is happening in Greece at the moment, or London during the student fee debates.

This is by far more worrisome than secession movements, which are insincere and impractical.

Also martial law has a far greater chance of stemming from civil unrest then rebellious governments.

And I disagree with BLD, I think its a very real possibility. People want to believe that our armed forces and police force would not turn on the public, but I don't buy it. Why the hell wouldn't they, if it takes so little effort to convince them there's good americans and there's baaaaaad americans. go after the baaaaad americans.

[Strangelet]

scenario b:

another terrorist attack somewhere on the scale between 9/11 and a nuclear device detonated in an urban area. A situation that some scientists consider to have a probability value converging to 1 over a long enough time frame.

what would be the government response: do you think it wouldn't be to have Erik Prince come back from the emirates with an army of our own retired soldiers getting paid to go door to door, set up check points, and shoot up uncle frank's pick up when he fails to slow down?

you reap what you sow man.

Seriously, we are one mid to high scale incident away from martial law, because everything that would have stood in the way has been softened and diluted over the past 10 years.

call me a nutter. I would be if I asserted this to be a foregone conclusion. But I'd say you're a nutter if you don't accept the possibility.

[BrotherLovesDub]

Originally Posted by Strangelet

And I disagree with BLD, I think its a very real possibility. People want to believe that our armed forces and police force would not turn on the public, but I don't buy it. Why the hell wouldn't they, if it takes so little effort to convince them there's good americans and there's baaaaaad americans. go after the baaaaad americans.

this scenario has only come up now that there's a scary black man in office. right wing assholes are desperate to create some major event to get him out of his second term. there's no way a state will secede and this type of scare mongering 'CIVIL WAR II' is 100% about being afraid of a black man in power. it's only republicans talking about it.

[Strangelet]

Originally Posted by BrotherLovesDub

this scenario has only come up now that there's a scary black man in office. right wing assholes are desperate to create some major event to get him out of his second term. there's no way a state will secede and this type of scare mongering 'CIVIL WAR II' is 100% about being afraid of a black man in power. it's only republicans talking about it.

Yeah I see where you're coming from and i share your frustration. The fact that Rick Perry is considered a heavyweight republican candidate is frightening in and of itself. I've never been more revolted by anything in politics as I was the republican condescension towards Obama after he was elected. this whole attitude of "not my president, maybe yours" is 4 year old emotions that should stay with 4 year olds.

But I think we're beyond that now. There are scarier boogie men than obama's race even for racist fucks like rick perry.

So now secession movements are coming from a completely different place. The new boogie man is that 10% of the country owns 90% of its stocks, bonds, and assets. Campaign finance is reaching 8 figures per candidate and the majority of which come from corporate sponsors. People are worn out on the war on terror and the war on drugs, both of which are increasingly less representative of the people. So now Texas and Utah are proposing bills to ban TSA pat downs. Utah proposed a bill to make gold coins legal tender. Vermont just passed a single payer health care system in spite of Obamacare. We'll see several states "opt out" of the bill. And california can tell us all about how the federal government treated its citizens when they legalized medical marijuana.

So its time to divorce secession from race.

But again, its not going to happen because no state can survive without the federal government. I mean if you want to be like sean hannity and complain about the welfare state and the entitlement culture, lets talk about how the federal government has made it so every state is basically on its own welfare program, aside from a few rich, liberal states.

here's what Obama means: the federal government can't or won't be changed and we don't know why. this is beyond frightening because this means it no longer represents the people.

This is the federal government of today.

TSA pat downs at Proms in New Mexico High Schools, mandated by a federal judge
NSA agents interrogating a junior high kid at school for some hypothetical comment he made on facebook regarding obama's assasination.
The Department Of Education sending local swat team to break down a door of someone they said was guilty of student loan fraud. (IE the fraud of not paying it back).

Its beyond stupid, and if federal elections can't change things, then local governments will have no choice but to step in. But because they are so dependent on the federal government, they will never secede, as much as they will pass token bills.

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But I'm telling you martial law will come from civil unrest or a terrorist strike. So the question isn't will secession cause martial law, the question is will martial law cause secession?