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#181
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Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
I agree with that. But frankly, I think the majority - not all - who oppose it are probably basing it on some level of bigotry (unlike Deckard, I'm very comfortable using that word ), or at the very least, ignorance.
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#182
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Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
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Btw - how about you give us a shorter name so we don't have to copy/paste it when typing? |
#183
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Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
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You can just shorten it to 349...how do you think I feel when I have to log in?? |
#184
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Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
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The vast majority of those who oppose same-sex marriage do so based on their religious beliefs that homosexuality is an abomination and a sin. For example in California, the campaign for prop 8 which constitutionally banned same-sex marriage was largely backed by the Mormon church. And two other groups largely responsible for voting the proposition into affect were hispanics and blacks - both of whom are traditionally strongly religious groups. So there are your groups that are "obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices". And of course their "obstinate opinions" manifested themselves in constitutionally stripping a minority group of basic civil rights, which I'd say falls quite neatly into the category of regarding or treating "the members of a group with hatred and intolerance". As for ignorance, I again go by the standard definition: "the state or fact of being ignorant : lack of knowledge, education, or awareness" Where ignorance plays into it is that it doesn't appear to me that many people who oppose same-sex marriage have any idea what it would really mean. Allowing same-sex marriage would ONLY mean that the federal and state governments would legally recognize a same-sex marriage so that they can be afforded the same rights hetero married couples have in regards to filing joint tax returns, inheritances, hell - simply being legally recognized as a family member to your partner. It WON'T mean any private or religious group will be compelled to start performing same sex marriages, or that children will suddenly decide to become gay since it's legal for gays to marry, or that straight marriages will suddenly lose their value, etc. To believe or argue any of these fallacies is ignorance, plain and simple. Quote:
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Download all my remixes Last edited by Sean; 07-22-2009 at 07:32 PM. |
#185
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Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
This is really a handful, so let me say this:
There is a difference between bigotry and ignorance, and I would agree that most of the prop 8 voters weren't really aware of what the bill was going to do. It's pretty obvious that religion is ultimately what brought this down, so I can't really argue that. The point I'm trying to argue is a lot smaller than what you're implying. I do think that the people who voted against gay marriage did so for religious reasons that are in themselves bigoted, but I don't think the people themselves were. I don't think your average prop 8 voter would really mind if a gay couple moved next door. I don't disagree with your other point either; I realize that the whole thing is sort of a tangent, I just really don't like the idea that some posters have that Christians who vote down gay marriage are hateful, ignorant, fearful people that beat their wives and molest their children. The problem with any political internet discussion is that like 95% of the people who discuss political are liberal and anti-religion; so it just becomes one big circlejerk where you can say hateful things like that and nobody ever calls you out. Frankly it makes me sick. Since when does not understanding a minority group's issues well justify stripping them of civil rights? So if there's a minority group that loved goats should they be allowed to marry one? It's not a civil right for gays to get married. In fact, I would argue that marriage is an institution and not a civil right at all. It's no more a civil right than getting a drivers license is. Of course, you can bring up the inter-racial thing too; okay, so even then, I wouldn't say not allowing me to marry a black girl is necessarily stripping me of a right; it's just a right that doesn't exist yet. Of course you could argue that way the institution is defined is unfair. But I just don't see it as "not allowing gays their rights", when they're talking about something that would radically change the definition of marriage. |
#186
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Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
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And the simple fact is that the rights regarding marriage do exist, which is why those who penned, backed, and voted for prop 8 in California felt it necessary to actually create a constitutional amendment that specifically prohibited same sex couples from being able to marry. So they were very literally and actively stripped of their constitutionally guaranteed right to "social equality". Since we're at the point where you're actually asking me to defend my position against goat fuckers - which I did in my parenthetical above incidentally - I'd like to ask you a question, and I'd really appreciate a serious answer. Keeping in mind what we've already discussed, what are the good, logically sound, non-discriminatory arguments against same sex marriage in your opinion, and why?
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#187
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Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
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But you're right, sometimes this place is a circle jerk, but then you're still making slippery slope comparisons between zoophilia and homosexuality after pages and pages Sean and Deckard giving solid challenges to your thinking. which means, the biggest circle jerk right now is the one going on in your head. start responding to people's thoughts if you want a meaningful contrast.
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"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain |
#188
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Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
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#189
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Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
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are you just angry with the world?
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"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain |
#190
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Re: is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?
I'm reminded of Buggs Bunny's reverse psychology bit. I think he just got the ball rolling in that sort of way. I think.
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