what do y'all think? (the atheism thread)

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by Deckard

Assuming you mean the walking on water story, the 'or' is a bit misleading. The story is obviously for the religious - but clearly there are plenty of believers who take a more conventional logic (ie. less literalist) approach to biblical stories than others, which is probably why I didn't interpret the picture as being about biblical literalism. Personally I took it as an atheist-centric reference to the famous burden of proof argument for God's existence.

Just to be clear, posting it was no more than a little good-humoured mischief making on my part. True, I consider the logic of the religious person deeply muddled when it comes to the issue of belief in God or gods (I'm sure plenty think mine equally muddled) - but it would be a far stretch for me to conclude from it that religious people reject logic in any other area of their life.

What do we mean by "God´s existence"?
You see, I grew up in Hungary during the Communism where religion was strictly forbidden so I´m still trying to sort things out. (I got the Bible For Dummies for a couple of years ago and that was my first book ever about religion.)
I may be wrong but as I understand "God" is something bigger than everything and anybody and that "God"/divinity is what some people experience as a kind of magical revelation (e.g. the ability to walking on water, making vine of the water, hear God´s voice etc). I´m not surprised people, religious or not, need some kind of proof, unless they have experienced the "magic" themselves. I´m still not clear about it but it might be some difference between what we call "believers" and "religious" people. For me, the "believer" sounds like a person who believes without any proof or own experience. But it´s maybe just a translation/language thing so I may be wrong.

However, I think that "God"/divinity exists in everything and everybody even though some of us has experienced it in some way and some of us not.
Personally, I don´t belong to any particular religion just because I haven´t find the genre that fits my experience. The "making vine of water" variant sounds quite interesting though

[stimpee]

[Sarcasmo]

Originally Posted by stimpee

What's funny is that most religious people (especially Christians in this country) feel like their rights are being trampled on by atheist groups, when there has been a steady increase in religiosity since the early 1800's. You can't be oppressed if you're the majority opinion, and if you're seriously upset about some rocks with words on them being removed from public property, then you're not very secure in your faith to begin with. There is no reason, at least to my way of thinking, that science and faith can't coexist. Science is, after all, just a tool by which we attempt to understand what's around us, not some competing faith.

[Deckard]

Originally Posted by Sarcasmo

What's funny is that most religious people (especially Christians in this country) feel like their rights are being trampled on by atheist groups, when there has been a steady increase in religiosity since the early 1800's. You can't be oppressed if you're the majority opinion

I wish someone would tell that to the populist commentators in this country, many of whom make a healthy living from regular frothing about how white people are the real victims of racism, how men are more discriminated against than women, how homosexuals have more rights than heterosexuals, how Muslims are always getting special treatment and Christians are the most vilified, etc etc.

Of course there are Christians being persecuted around the world in different ways - and certainly there are a greater number of more vocal/vociferous non-believers around these days. Christians living in countries where their religion in the dominant one (such as the US and UK) will of course feel the brunt of that. But still - perspective frequently seems to go out the window.

-

OK... would I be pushing it too far by posting another pic?



(that's the last one from me before you have permission to call me Mongoose )

[Deckard]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

we have a couple of friends in common, i just hope they don't see that and somehow side with them

I'm sure they won't, but if they do (based solely on what you wrote) then I'd suggest they were never great friends to begin with.

[the mongoose]

Originally Posted by Deckard

that's the last one from me before you have permission to call me Mongoose

Stop laughing motherfucker......you will never have that permission.....I already go by that name, it's MINE!

[Strangelet]

religion is like a penis

awesome.

[bas_I_am]

God. . . the bailout value of the ultimate recursive function -> why(x)

 function why(x){
    var answer = because ( x );
    if ( !answer ){
        return God;
    }
    else{
        return why ( answer );
    }
}

[stimpee]

Douglas Adams summed my atheistic attitude perfectly when he described himself as a radical atheist. Read the full interview here: http://www.atheists.org/Interview%3A__Douglas_Adams (its also in his final book, The Salmon Of Doubt - great book btw)

It begins like so:
AMERICAN ATHEISTS: Mr. Adams, you have been described as a “radical Atheist.” Is this accurate?

DNA: Yes. I think I use the term radical rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “Atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘Agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean Atheist. I really do not believe that there is a god - in fact I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one. It’s easier to say that I am a radical Atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously. It’s funny how many people are genuinely surprised to hear a view expressed so strongly. In England we seem to have drifted from vague wishy-washy Anglicanism to vague wishy-washy Agnosticism - both of which I think betoken a desire not to have to think about things too much.

People will then often say “But surely it’s better to remain an Agnostic just in case?” This, to me, suggests such a level of silliness and muddle that I usually edge out of the conversation rather than get sucked into it. (If it turns out that I’ve been wrong all along, and there is in fact a god, and if it further turned out that this kind of legalistic, cross-your-fingers-behind-your-back, Clintonian hair-splitting impressed him, then I think I would chose not to worship him anyway.)
___
I too believe strongly that there is no God (or G-d or god). I find the idea just so utterly ridiculous. May as well believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden. But I'll not get into those arguments willingly because I truly do not care one way or the other what people believe in as long as it doesnt fuck up my daily life and/or friends/family around me.

BTW, fairies dont exist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottingley_Fairies

[froopy seal]

Originally Posted by stimpee

Douglas Adams summed my atheistic attitude perfectly when he described himself as a radical atheist. Read the full interview here: http://www.atheists.org/Interview%3A__Douglas_Adams (its also in his final book, The Salmon Of Doubt - great book btw)

It begins like so:
AMERICAN ATHEISTS: Mr. Adams, you have been described as a “radical Atheist.” Is this accurate?

DNA: Yes. I think I use the term radical rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “Atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘Agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean Atheist. I really do not believe that there is a god - in fact I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one. It’s easier to say that I am a radical Atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously. It’s funny how many people are genuinely surprised to hear a view expressed so strongly. In England we seem to have drifted from vague wishy-washy Anglicanism to vague wishy-washy Agnosticism - both of which I think betoken a desire not to have to think about things too much.

People will then often say “But surely it’s better to remain an Agnostic just in case?” This, to me, suggests such a level of silliness and muddle that I usually edge out of the conversation rather than get sucked into it. (If it turns out that I’ve been wrong all along, and there is in fact a god, and if it further turned out that this kind of legalistic, cross-your-fingers-behind-your-back, Clintonian hair-splitting impressed him, then I think I would chose not to worship him anyway.)

Thanks, Steve. Once again, DNA has added a valuable insight to my life. Hereinafter, I will proudly call myself a radical atheist (the term 'radical' befitting my ever-growing beard).

Originally Posted by stimpee

I too believe strongly that there is no God (or G-d or god). I find the idea just so utterly ridiculous. May as well believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden. But I'll not get into those arguments willingly because I truly do not care one way or the other what people believe in as long as it doesnt fuck up my daily life and/or friends/family around me.

Full ack.