is there anyone else who is pro-life AND pro-gay rights, or is it just me?

[Strangelet]

Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j

One other thing I think should be addressed is that marriage is a religious institution, not a state one or civil one or federal one or whatever.

I'm calling bullshit on this. what is your source? What have you read and can cite that can support this claim? You're conveniently forgetting the massive economic and political vectors that have shaped the institution of marriage. Ever read a jane austin novel?

I've never once heard about marriage as a way of getting helpless women out of harm, and i've heard lots of stories about marriage being power strategies between families. And sometimes even love.

Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j

but I would say one of the best arguments against it would be to say it's not necessary

You're the one not reading posts, mate.

Gay marriage is the holy grail, no, the emancipation proclamation for gay people. Nothing else will give them an equal status.

Spelled out.

1. marriage is a public ceremony. A covenant is created between the couple and society. The couple accepts certain expectations of behavior from society (IE not fucking other people's spouses), and the couple is given certain privileges from society.

2. homosexuality lacks social acceptance as a form of coupling.

3. gay marriage therefore is the public acceptance of their coupling and therefore of being gay categorically.

QED

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

Needless to say I disagree with a lot of that, but I'm not going to post anymore in this thread since you people are obviously trying to get me to debate against something that I do support, so I'll just leave it at that.

[Sarcasmo]

Hey, we never asked you to play devil's advocate on this topic. You're the one who popped off at the mouth and then got reamed by half the members of the forum. If you're butt-hurt and want to take your ball and go home, that's fine, but don't blame it on us, bro.

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

Originally Posted by Sarcasmo

Hey, we never asked you to play devil's advocate on this topic. You're the one who popped off at the mouth and then got reamed by half the members of the forum. If you're butt-hurt and want to take your ball and go home, that's fine, but don't blame it on us, bro.

Yikes, all I was doing was showing how you can be against gay marriage and not be a hateful person who beats their wife...the fact that nobody challenges that is worrying to me. I don't exactly call it a reaming because I actually agreed with most everything that was being said, but whatever. No need to be a total prick about it, is there? Seriously, get over yourself.

[dubman]

hahahahaha.

you people are obviously trying to get me to debate against something that I do support

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

[Sarcasmo]

Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j

Yikes, all I was doing was showing how you can be against gay marriage and not be a hateful person who beats their wife...the fact that nobody challenges that is worrying to me. I don't exactly call it a reaming because I actually agreed with most everything that was being said, but whatever. No need to be a total prick about it, is there? Seriously, get over yourself.

Dude, you missed the mark completely, and you're so in denial you don't even know it.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j

Yikes, all I was doing was showing how you can be against gay marriage and not be a hateful person who beats their wife...the fact that nobody challenges that is worrying to me.

I don't recall anyone saying that everyone who's against same sex marriage is a "hateful person who beats their wife". The point about abuse was simply raised as something that's actually a threat to marriage yet relatively ignored by those who pretend to be protecting the institution's sanctity, unlike same-sex marriage which has been vanquished through such nobel legislation as the "Defense of Marriage Act".

I think the predominant feelings on the part of people 'round these parts is that a significant percentage* of those who oppose same sex marriage do so out of some level of homophobia and/or flat out bigotry - and frankly, as this thread has shown, I think it's difficult to prove otherwise.

* note - that's "significant percentage", not "all". Just seemed like it might be necessary to reiterate that detail.

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

Originally Posted by Sarcasmo

Dude, you missed the mark completely, and you're so in denial you don't even know it.

explain? what exactly are you accusing me of?

[jOHN rODRIGUEZ]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32405543/ns/us_news-life/


See guys, THIS would have been soo much more acceptable. You dumb gay people. Man! I'm having fun talking shit about everyone!!!

[Sarcasmo]

Originally Posted by 34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j

explain? what exactly are you accusing me of?

The fact that you're still trying to focus on my tongue-in-cheek description of a marriage means you're totally missing the point. Yes, I made up a fake marriage wherein the father is abusive and, though I never said it, also against gay marriage. The point was NOT that anyone against gay marriage is a hateful person who beats their wife. The point was that there's so much wrong with the "traditional" institution of marriage, that no one has the right to now claim it as sacrosanct and off limits to someone else. I mean, we let people get married by Elvis impersonators, for fuck's sake, so again, what right do we have to deny marriage to anyone? We cannot, on one hand, treat marriage like a joke, and then turn around and say that gays getting married will somehow tarnish this most holy of institutions. This "Fags Not Allowed" policy is motivated by fear and prejudicial opinion. Period. The fact that we tie in so many State benefits to marriage makes the denial of gay marriage unconstitutional.

You say that you agree with gay marriage, but all of your arguments are against it. If you were just playing Devil's Advocate, you did a crap job of it and we can just leave it at that. However, I suspect that you DON'T actually agree with gay marriage, and you're simply not very good at articulating your points.

And, yes; I'm a grumpy prick. Sean is the polite one. I'm more of the hot-head. If you want someone to pat you on the head and tell you it's going to be alright, Sean's your man. I got over myself many many moons ago, and I got over other people earlier than that. I call 'em like I see 'em, and I'm not going to walk on eggshells around someone that I've never met in my life. It's called "Tough Love," and if it stings a little, well...