[bryantm3]

Tom wrote:

This was probably a misunderstanding. I never gave any permission, I've just meant, since I can't stop you - don't mention my name anywhere. You can't release a compilation torrent without listing your sources at the movement anyway, but you can still try it on other trackers. I couldn't do anything against it but if I could, I would. Fortunately I can stop it on the Movement, so I did.

Read my first reply on the thread - I said this compilation is pointless and I only release my work under the condition that it keeps unaltered and complete. To compile it to something new means changing it.
I'll stop releasing further remasters if this condition will not be respected. Hope you understand.

tom

I wrote:

I'm afraid I don't, Tom. The message you sent me said that if I did not include your name on the compilation I could release it. The compilation artwork and the notes do not include your name. I thought we had discussed this and you had given me the go-ahead to release it as long as your name was not on it.

Daniel

Tom wrote:

Well I have read it again, and you are probably right, it could have been misleading. I'm sorry I was in a hurry yesterday so I probably was a bit vague.

On the other hand, your attitude of posting your request to a forum of which you knew that I'm not frequently visiting by telling "I will be releasing the project on October 15, so if I don't hear anything by then I'll assume it's okay" was somewhat pushy to say the least. I have read it not before October 14 so I haven't had much time to object anyway.

However, I never said you can release it to the Movement. This is something completely different. The people over there are the same as the people here. And since you have already revealed everything about your project here, it would make no big difference if you remove my name from the artwork. The folks would know it anyway.
I asked not to mention my name or "TM Productions" anywhere, but anywhere includes this or other forums as well.

tom

I wrote:

Tom, please read this message. Do you have a personal vendetta against me? There are many other torrents on the site that have your material on them that even credit you. Unlike them, however, I put out a public notice a week ahead of time that I was using sources as an act of generosity. I'm trying to do right by everyone. I wasn't even going to release this compilation, but a bunch of people on the forum are begging me to upload it, torrent it, send it in the mail, etc., and I thought I would do something nice for everyone and put it out there.

Your name is not on it, you aren't credited anywhere and the Genesis Movement site doesn't require sources, only dates. There are many torrents on there that follow this basic protocol that haven't been deleted or banned. There is no possible way that, even if the compilation is bad, which it isn't, that it would come back to you.

I waited a whole week to put this out because I wanted to give everyone ample time to tell me if they wanted to be credited or not. Two days ago I came down with a fever and have been sick at home doing nothing but waiting to upload this thing. You sent me a message about six hours before I was going to upload it, but I obliged you and followed your wishes and modified some extremely complicated artwork to obscure your name and still keep the integrity of the artwork intact. Today you gave me a go-ahead and I uploaded the torrent.

Hours later, the torrent was pulled and anyone clicking on the link would see an accusation saying that I had not followed the wishes of the remastering groups, even though I did everything within my scope to make sure everyone was okay a week in advance of torrenting it. You pulled the rug out from under me and made me look like an ass, and gave no indication that you would do so beforehand.

I've worked on this for a couple of months, and it's something I'm really proud of. Tom, you've got a lot to be proud of, you're a talented producer and technician and you have the ability to turn these recordings into something beautiful. I love Genesis' music as much as you do, but I am not blessed with these same abilities, but what I can do is showcase some of these remastering projects in a way that is tasteful and pleasing. I don't have a lot to be proud of, Tom. It's 7 AM here and this has me terribly upset and this and whatever I'm sick with has really gotten me down, and I've got nothing left to lose. I'm just sick and tired and I need to go to bed. Do what you will.

Daniel

Tom wrote:

Nothing personal at all, Daniel. I've mentioned before that I didn't like the other compilations either. But the last one that appeared was some time ago and when I spotted it it was too late.

It is not my fault that I'm not so often here. This forum is widely uninteresting to me. You could have sent a PN in the first place but it would likely have made no difference apart from the fact that I would have got a notification email then.

Just today I've found the thread in another section, where the tracklisting was widely discussed. The second or third reply someone said, use TM use TM use TM. And you did. Everyone knows that this is my stuff on your discs and any attempt to disguise it is in vain. This is the reason why I don't want to see it released in the very first place.

I'm sorry for upsetting you but that's the way it is.

I wrote:

Tom, I feel like you have a personal vendetta against me. You gave me approval for the compilation and then actively went and contacted Willem and TM and told them to remove the torrent.

Once again, there are other compilations STILL on the tracker that have your material on them, and it's well known that they are on there, such as the Collins Live Archive. Why didn't you contact them to have them taken off? You are basically telling me, that if I hadn't asked your permission and done this covertly, then it would have been OK. But now that I have asked your permission, you're giving me hell and really dealing me dirt. Tom, do you have a best friend, a wife, a confidante? You are really acting unreasonably— Maybe it's because you're having a bad week. If your week has been as bad as mine has been I understand. But maybe you should show our correspondence to someone else and get a third party opinion, because sometimes what feels right can be skewed depending on life circumstances and such.

I offer you a reasonable solution, Tom. Here is the plan:

First, I will delete all threads and posts mentioning you including the tracklisting thread and all the permission threads.
Second, I will modify the artwork to not only NOT mention you, I will modify it to give the credit to other remastering projects with similar releases, such as the January 2 performance credited to SAB instead of you.
Third, I will wait a period of three days to re-upload the torrent so that there is no way it can be traced back to you.



This is me going out of my way to appease you, Tom. But all this is contingent on you giving Simon and Willem the OK to let me upload it. I'm not asking you to sponsor this release, I'm not asking you to go out of your way to do anything. I'm asking for the same permissions countless others have gotten that didn't even ask for them. I did. I had common courtesy, and you have really dealt me a bad hand on this whole affair. Please consider the solution I listed above and get back to me.

Thanks,

Daniel

Tom wrote:

Daniel,

again, nothing personal. I said it in the first place: I just don't like these compilations - I think they are pointless. If you haven't asked for permission your torrent would have been deleted too. I'm sorry If I can't be that elaborate to explain my reasons in detail but I haven't got much time for a correspondence like this.

I said I can not stop you using my stuff and I asked you to remove any links to me or TM Productions. This did not include any permission to upload the torrent to the Movement. I should have said it more definite, so I apologize.

First, the internet won't forget and the people won't forget. So deleting the threads is pointless.
Second, modifying the artwork in a way that it lists WRONG sources actively misleads people, so this is nothing you should consider seriously.

I have another idea - why not simply using other, unremastered sources? - From Lyceum we have lots of fine Radio Shows provided by the GRaSP group, Montreal and Rainbow 3 are covered by GASP and from Chicago, Sheffield, Pittsburgh Hammersmith and Rainbow 2 I can provide the more or less untreated transfer files so you can do what you want without asking anyone. That would be an effort which I would really appreciate.

Consider this,
tom