[bryantm3]

this is a long story. i've been trying to release a genesis torrent and there is this guy in the genesis community who won't stop harassing me— i know it doesn't sound like much but i need advice on what to do next. i'm thinking of leaving the community entirely but this guy has been such a jerk, i just want people to know what he's done. i'm thinking about making the following post on the forums over there... if you care to have a read through please do.

Tom Morgenstern of TM Productions has been repeatedly harassing me regarding the release of my compilation. After over a week of this, I cannot take any more. Tom has not only attempted to exercise copyright control over bootlegs that he does not own, he has gone outside the Genesis community to get my torrent banned from another site by lying and telling the administrator there that Genesis does not allow trading of bootlegs. I am posting the entire conversation so everyone can draw their own conclusions. Because of the hold that TM has over the community, this post will most likely be deleted within an hour or two. But I thought everyone deserved to know the truth.

I wrote:

Hey all, I'm doing a compilation of some of the greatest recordings between 1976 and 1980 and am planning on sharing it on the Genesis-Movement torrent website. I am using mostly material that some very talented and kind people have remastered and fixed over the years, and I would like to have their permission to use their material. All of the material I am using will be listed in the release notes in the torrent as it is listed on the Movement website, and all the material I am using will be as it was originally released, lossless, with no changes except fade ins and fade outs and amplification— with two exceptions below.

If anyone is here whose permission I need, please reply to this thread, or if anyone knows how I can get in contact with these people, it would be much appreciated.

Once again, thank you for all your work on these remastering projects and so kindly making them free to all of us fans!

I will be releasing the project on October 15, so if I don't hear anything by then I'll assume it's okay. Here are the people I need permissions from and the specific tracks:

[...]

TM PRODUCTIONS:

• Your Own Special Way — Rainbow, January 3 1977
• The Cinema Show— Hammersmith Odeon Pre-FM 1976
• White Mountain — Hammersmith Odeon Pre-FM 1976
• In That Quiet Earth/Afterglow — Rainbow January 2 Pre-FM 1977
• The Story Of Albert — Lyceum Pre-FM 1980
• Behind The Lines/Duchess/Guide Vocal— Montreal 1980
• Turn It On Again — Lyceum Pre-FM 1980
• Duke's Travels / Duke's End — Lyceum Pre-FM 1980
• Say It's Alright Joe — Lyceum Pre-FM 1980
• Squonk — Sheffield 1980
• All In A Mouse's Night — Rainbow January 2 Pre-FM 1977
• Ripples — Lyceum Pre-FM 1980
• Los Endos — Hammersmith Odeon Pre-FM 1976

COASTER FACTORY:

• Back In N.Y.C. — Aylesbury 1980

LOSTBROOK:

• I Know What I Like — Madison Square Garden 1978, Lostbrook 52.

SAB:

• Dance On A Volcano — SAB 04 1976
  Special Note:
  I changed the speed and pitch but did not mess with equalisation, and I will denote so in the release notes. Do you want me to credit you as a starting point or not credit you at all since the final product is different?

Tom wrote:

Sorry Daniel, but I don't quite like to see my work compiled to something else and I can't see the point in it. I'm releasing my stuff for free but under the condition to keep everything intact, complete and unaltered. It's fine that you will list your sources in the notes but I don't want to see my project name mentioned there. So do whatever you want but don't share it.
Apart from that, Simon does not allow compilations without consulting him first (see FAQ on site).

I wrote:

hey tom,

i sent you a PM.

thanks

daniel

I wrote:

Tom,

I’m hoping you get this soon— you don't seem to frequent these forums very much anymore.

I appreciate you wanting to protect your work— it's pretty much acknowledged that you're the best and most talented person out there who does this sort of thing— the Genesis community has really been blessed to have you pretty much leading the way on remastering these bootlegs, and I assure you that the utmost respect has been given to your work; in the compilation I made I have not changed your work in any way, have kept it all digital and lossless throughout the entire process, and have kept a buffer around every track of the original concert's audience and Phil’s in-between song dialogue. With your work, there isn't even any purpose in changing your material as the way you have worked on it, it has turned out perfect, and in some cases, your source is the only source out there.

This is why, unfortunately, there aren't any alternatives for some of the concerts I used your work from, such as the Hammersmith Odeon Pre-FM recording from 1976. If I wished to use that concert's Pre-FM recording, there is no unmastered direct copy out there, only your remaster. This seems to be the case for many of the shows out there which is why I used work from so many remastering projects— for example, Bern 1976 is unavailable besides the great work done by the Digital Brothers.

I understand your aversion to compilation projects, as many of them are rushed and simply do not sound as good as the sources they are originally from. However, this has been done many times before using your own material, such as Kasper's "Collins Era Live Archive" and "The Musical Box" compilation a few years back. The compilation I am putting together I have worked on for a very long time and I do believe you will be pleased with the final product— The best sources and performances were used with delicate care to keep the sources exactly as they were intended to be heard, and when there were no better sources, I did the job myself— for example, the remaster of the "Wot Gorilla" medley floating out there is my work. On this compilation is an entirely new version of that which is superior to any out there so far.

To preserve the original recordings as much as possible, the compilation was expanded to three discs to keep between-song chatter by the band intact. In addition, the compilation's ordering is not haphazard and seemingly unordered like many of the previous efforts— the compilation is ordered in the exact order that Genesis performed the songs during their concerts— So even though it uses a lot of sources and it is very long, it still has the feel of a "complete show" even though it is a compilation.

Finally, the artwork that I have done for this compilation is, in my opinion, top notch. Although it may not reflect the typical style used on bootlegs, I think as a record collector you may appreciate the quality of the work.

To prove to you that this is truly a worthy effort, I have added the artwork to Photobucket for you to take a look at— while on Photobucket the art is compressed, in the final product it will be uncompressed TIFF images to avoid noise created by JPEG compression. I have also added tracks 6-10 of Disc One of the compilation for you to take a listen to.

Here is the artwork on Photobucket:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/bryantm3/FRONT.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39...tm3/INSIDE.jpg

And here are a couple of tracks from the compilation:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/x7d9b5

Thanks,

Daniel

Tom wrote:

Daniel,

True I have never been here that often because this forum collected mainly the people from the official forum's general section - and these people usually didn't care much about bootlegs and were the typical yeasayers when it came to sloppy releases like the OMG mono DVD.

Indeed you artwork is nice and your ambitions are serious but I don't like these compilations at all. I didn't like Kasper's either. I simply don't see the point in it. Whenever it comes to using my remasters I cannot help thinking that they used my name and logo just for namedropping purposes. And this is the least I want.

Since I can not stop you anyway, I can offer a solution: Use whatever songs you want but just don't mention where you've taken them from. Not my name, no TM Productions anywhere, neither on the artwork nor on the description. If you get asked just tell them you've been asked not to mention it, not even in a PM. OK?

Best, tom

I wrote:

Thanks Tom, I really appreciate that. I will delete your name from the credits and won't mention it to anyone. I hope you have a Happy Halloween!

Thanks,
Daniel

During this time period, I removed all mention of Tom's name from the torrent and the artwork. I uploaded the torrent to the Movement website, and a few hours later, anyone following the link would be presented with this:

'Four Great Tours — Four Great Hours 1976-1980' was deleted by ------

Reason: Creator of most of these remasters objects against this torrent (and did already so before the torrent started). Uploader didn't care about that. We do.

I assumed this was a mistake since Tom had given me permission.



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