Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

(Originally written in the 'Barking (Track by Track)' thread, then cut out of the thread and turned into a discussion about innovation, and now cut out of that thread and turned into the general thoughts/overview thread that you're about to read. Links to the former thrads are at the bottom.)

I don't feel like doing a track-by-track review, as I don't want to have to describe what the differences in the tracks are.

The problem with this album is that there's only one song that really tries to push boundaries and academic UW tendencies instead of stay in a safe spot. Louisiana is the unlikely song on the album, in particular an album that owes as much if not more to Kylie Minogue and Madonna as it does sweaty warehouse floors and heady art shops. Initially I was unpleasantly surprised that such a melancholy, serious affair would close this album out, but the more I hear it, the more that I'm struck with how good it is. It shows RnK in a different light, is daring and even though I feel that they could have exercised more discretion when recording the vocals, the little breaks and fluctuations in Karl's voice are honest and real. This I feel is what some reviewers talked about when they were saying that straight-forward lyrics were a surprising fit for UW, as the only thing remotely abstract about the lyrics are the metaphors that are fairly clear to understand in the song's context.

This is a well enough and enjoyable (note this!) album but the problem is that anyone could have made this album, whereas with any of the other studio releases from MK2 and MK3 one could ever claim that. Then again, after listening to the atrocity of OWB I can't help but wonder if at this stage that the boys are played out to the point that they just can't write a solid hour's worth of music for an album anymore. But even then, OWB was honest. Just call this album "UW and friends" to get it over with, and let's see if I'm right or wrong when the outtakes album becomes available.

A harsh review, but an honest one. This is maybe the best album since Beaucoup Fish, not as good as DUBNO and certainly not as good as STITI, but those albums are tough acts to follow.

A thread concerning Underworld's innovative qualities (or lack thereof) can be found here, if you'd like to participate in it: http://www.borndirty.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17092

A thread with deeper, track-by-track synopses can be found here: http://www.borndirty.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17065

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

after hearing the samples of the demo versions, the songs sound nearly as completed (or possibly better on a few) before the DJs got in the mix.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnoAqwvQdbg

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

Ahahaha - I totally disagree about OWB being an 'atrocity' - I love it. Then again it's a 'love it or hate it' type of album, so I can understand. But totally agree about "Louisiana".

But wasn't this album meant to be like - a collaborative thing with other artists and full of songs that would sound brilliant live? In that context, the rest of the songs make perfect sense. If they meant to push their sound to a different level, then...in that light, the album would fail.

So technically...this album wasn't supposed to be like the most innovative thing ever, but just an album filled with good vibes? If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. Yet in a way, they haven't really collaborated with other artists like this before. So in a way, that's them...experimenting...in that sense. Or maybe I'm reaching for straws there. In each album they try something new in the aspect of the process of making it. And I think Barking, in that sense, follows that trend.

And can someone tell me how "Moon In Water" involves High Contrast? Because I, as an avid listener of his, have no freaking clue WHERE his sound is through the entire song. I just hear Underworld.

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

Can someone split this thread again into a discussion on musical atrocities and what The Hague plans on doing about them?

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

I always loved that name; I always felt that any city that had "the" as the first part of the name had to be pretty cool. :)

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

This demonstrates that High Contrast has what it takes to be the best kind of producer, as opposed to a remixer.

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

OWB an atrocity? huh. get new ears. srsly. OWB is underrated. Its better than the new album anyway. And I dont think my opinion on that will change with repeated listens.

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

I don't necessarily think that's true...yes, this does have a kind of "generic" sound in places, a lot of standard 4/4 beats and predictable build-ups, but that doesn't mean anyone could have made it. There are a lot of albums by The Fall that are very structured and safe sounding and yet they are unmistakably The Fall...this album is unmistakeably UW. If you know any albums that sound like this one please point me to them!

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

Lol, my opinion's not going to change with repeated listens either. ;)

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

Would have to say Barking is a lot better than OWB.

IMO

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

Pfft. Oblivion with Bells was thoughtful, moody and gorgeous.

Barking has about has much soul as a plastic bag, comparatively speaking.

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

The notes in the box set explain that the alternative versions are not the point at which they were handed over to guest producers......

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

On the whole, I agree - despite it being the most unusual for them, my immediate response was Louisiana is the most Underworld track on the record.
I have two problems with the album - the beats are oversimplistic, and the vocals are a bit samey: where are the spoken tracks, or the vocal effects? Obviously it's an intentional move to make a poppier sounding record with more obvious vocals, but the variation in style was one thing I've always enjoyed in Underworld.
Oh, and they butchered Moon In Water. Or maybe High Contrast did.
Otherwise, I enjoyed the first disc a lot, a nice album, not their best, not groundbreaking, but some good songs definitely. Now for the second disc.

OWB is my favourite Underworld album, actually. But I tend to listen to more ambient music than techno and house, so that makes sense.

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

OWB is pretty good. Their first two albums in the MK II era are by far my favorites by them, but I really like BF and OWB; I feel that BF edges out OWB just a bit for me. Maybe if some of the weaker tracks on OWB were replaced with Parc and Food A Ready, it may have ranked third for me.

Barking is solid, but I have it ranked sixth currently. It can grow on me more, though, for sure. AHDO grew on me over the course of some years. Initially I was disapointed with AHDO (I still liked it, don't get me wrong), but a few years later I just...was more fond of it and simply liked it more.

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

Another thing I realised - the titles are a bit poppy in a way, aren't they? I know they've often changed song names from working titles to the finished product, but the releases have always had those strange, disjointed titles which I love. Many of the songs had more 'Underworld' titles to start with - You Do Scribble, Telematic Peal, Jumping The Cran - which were simplified or changed to titles which are a lot more 'normal' or even generic. Grace is a lot less UW than Telematic Peal.
Just a thought.

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

you mean apart from the looped vocal sample in Bird 1, the vocoder In ALAF, or the pitch warble in Louisiana, the weird high-pitched background vocal in Grace, or the computer-y (spoken) voice in Moon In Water, the spoken word sample in Hamburg Hotel or the spoken bit in Scribble? ;)

lots of stuff going on with the vocals on Barking I'd say...

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

It's not all that great actually. We have a bunch more cities starting with The (or Den in sort of archaic dutch) like Den Bosch or Den Helder although I don't think these tend to be translated like Den Haag/The Hague does.
Of course in englsih translation our whole country has a "The" as the first part of the name: The Netherlands, and we are definitely pretty cool :)

(Sorry, totally OT again ;))

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

I mean like Born Slippy, Cowgirl, Pearl's Girl, Ring Road, Beautiful Burnout, Oich Oich, Push Upstairs, King Of Snake, Moaner, Puppies, Peggy Sussed, JAL to Tokyo...
No, you're right, there are effects, but they seem more like additional touches rather than the huge variation of style and texture on the vocals before now.
To put it plainer: the vocals are all sung, clearly, and the lyrics are mostly very decipherable. Before, you'd get something like that followed by Karl ranting incoherently and sounding quite angry or something.

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

for some reason, "the hague" creeps me out. just the fact that it is central to the world criminal court and many UN operations. i can see it as a 1984-style centre of global totalitarianism someday.

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

maybe i'm missing something, but this seems as far from uw as anything i've heard. it's like a band trying way too hard to be underworld.

there are some absolute stinkers here - particularly alaf - it sounds so, thin and alien - hard to believe i'm listening to uw, to be honest...

maybe i'm too old for this?!

i like bird 1,hamburg hotel and moon on water - otherwise, it feels like it's trying to do what uw have always steered clear of ie tried to play to the audience, rather than give them something new to chew on. i mean - massive eurphoric stabs of 'between stars' - no wonder karl was having a love-in with dave pearce.

lovely for the kidz maybe , but with the veryhonourable exceptions mentioned, i just can't swallow this.

sad to note; the best 2 tracks they've been doing live in recent times, 'downpipe' and 'can u feel this bass' made me very optimistic for this release - turns out they're just playing other people's grooves: and they're own ones are barking up the wrong tree.

quite a let-down - though better than ahdo by an essex country mile...

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

tbh I've actually found AHDO to be better than BF over time, though when AHDO first dropped I didn't think it had anything worthwhile on it. But yea, everyone's got an opinion it seems, which IMO is the majesty of UW's portfolio of works -- every last one of their albums has meant the world to someone somewhere, which is really cool.

Re: Barking: The Reviews
 

Im sorry but I hate this album. It doesn't sound like Underworld at all. What happened to their sound? Even Oblivion had the Underworld I know and love with Crocodile and Beautiful Burnout. The whole album sounds like one of tiesto's generic trance sets. I really hope Underworld doesn't go the way of BT and so many other electronic producers, catering to the popularity of trance, and lose themselves along the way.

Underworld is my favorite band and I will always love them live, but this album makes me sick. They really shouldn't collaborate with anyone ever again. They should be the leaders in electronic music, the band that sets the bar, not following the sounds of Dubfire and Paul Van Dyk. Those guys are mainstream hacks. Underworld has dabbled in Drum n Bass before, and the results of those efforts have always been better than Scribble (Pearl's Girl, Something Like a Mama, etc).

I must say I am concerned with the direction Underworld has taken with this album. I know there are others on this board who love Underworlds understated style and interwoven melodies, complex structure, and rambling vocals. None of these are present on this album. All I hear are pop trance tunes destined for another In Search of Sunrise mix. The album is cheesy and lacks heart and I hate it.

Re: Barking: The Reviews
 

(post only relevant when it was in the wrong thread)

why i think why a lot of y'all don't like the new record and a lot do
 

OK, i just listened to it (finally), because unlike the rest of y'all i don't have limitless resources and whatnot to get an advanced copy from japan that includes a free can of wasabi.

my first thoughts are that i agree, the songs do not fit together as an album at all, so that is something different for UW, something i don't necessarily like. my second thought was that this album despite that fact beats the living crap out of oblivion with bells and is probably going to tie with AHDO for me.

favourite tracks:

• bird 1
• hamburg hotel
• between stars

^i have no complaints for these. these are perfect.

good tracks:

• scribble (the album version is really a lot better than the single version. gives a lot more time for it to build up like the original did.
• diamond jigsaw (WHY IS THE GUITAR SOLO BURIED?? PAUL VAN DYKE I AM GOING TO OWN YOUR ASS!!!)
• louisiana (although i feel like it could've been so much more... to me it compares to this song by the stone temple pilots (listen please):
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8iFc...layer_embedded
  
  those of you who don't like louisiana, i feel like this is representative of the emotion UW was trying to go for, but ultimately didn't pull it off, imo. i don't think extra producers would have helped, though, as this really had to be something they had to do on their own. regardless it's a decent track.

tracks that i don't really care for, for one reason or another:

• always loved a film. i'm not going to say that they should've used this version over that version or whatnot cos i really didn't have much interest in this song in the first place. but the "heeey-vunn, heeey-vunn" refrain really annoys me. but the guitar breakdown is nice and the music is fairly good. it's just that refrain! argh!
• grace. and not because of the music at all. it has a nice radiohead style vibe, and it's very dark. but i do not like the vocals, once again... they are a little irritating to me and i feel like the music could've used the extra attention that went into the vocals. this would've been better as an instrumental if it had been worked on a bit more.
• moon in water. i don't really care for this one much, it just bores me, it is too similar to 'to heal' and 'cuddle bunny' on the last record.

what i think UW wanted when they were involving these producers were to complete these tracks that they felt were not whole at the time they handed them over, and in some cases such as the last three i feel like the producers didn't really complete the sound of the songs, but instead just tweaked them and put their signature on it, sort of like a remix or edit. i think the idea of bringing producers in to get new ideas is a good idea, but i think i would've made different choices- such as not involving producers whose main avenue of music is remixing tracks... in some cases i feel like these guys didn't really know what to do with the tracks— i would've involved people who are specifically producers such as brian eno, nigel godrich, david hentschel, and that new bloke who produced the new linkin park album. it's not because these are more traditional 'rock' producers, but because they have a way of working with the band and bouncing ideas off of each other to create something greater than either could accomplish apart from each other and add it back together.

which brings me to another thing i would've done differently: i don't think i would've just handed a bunch of different producers the tapes and said 'give it a go'. i think i would've picked one or two who could actually come into the studio for long periods of times where they could bounce ideas off of each other, rather than "hey we did the first 3/4 of this song, you do the last quarter". the choice to use many different producers really led the album to have a very disconnected feel to it, sort of like a collection of singles, which is why i think they needed to have only one or two producers come in.

not that they made bad choices on all of these songs. for example, high contrast did what i outlined above, he worked with them to create a whole new song by bouncing ideas back and forth and UW took the ideas they liked and scrapped the ones they didn't, and offered more ideas (new lyrics) back to high contrast, etc. etc. the result, whether you enjoy the track or not, was a very strong track. in contrast, songs like grace and moon in water remained mostly the same besides a whooshy sound or a keyboard sound here or there.

so i guess, my point overall is that the reason there is divide over this record is because many of y'all want a 'big picture' type album where there is a general connection between the band and yourself through the music, and the diversity threw some of you off. others like big tracks and look in the record for the best tracks and rate the album like that.

honestly, i do both. and i can say in as many ways as i can think, this is a damned good collection of songs, the best they've done in at least 12 years. but it doesn't quite have the cohesive feel of an album.

Re: why i think why a lot of y'all don't like the new record and a lot do
 

I originally liked only six of the nine tracks. The three I wasn't really impressed with are Between Stars, Grace, and Scribble. Well, Between Stars grew on me some more, but as some have said, it is over produced, and Karl seems like he is struggling to be heard on that song. Grace grew on me some more, too, but Between Stars and Grace are still in my bottom three. Scribble is the track I'd rank last. Not too bad, but I wish this album had You Do Scribble as track three and Scribble was like an iTunes bonus track or something.

If YDS was track 3 instead, I'd like the album a bit more, and it wouldn't hurt if Bird 1 didn't have the synth plops. Bird 1 is definitely in my top 3, but it would have probably been my surefire number one pick of the album without the synth plops. It is akin to how the "Heaven, Heaven" refrain in ALAF bugs you OP.

I guess the reason why I'm not very impressed with this album is that some tracks don't impress me much at all. I'm fine with the collaborations, as five out of eight of them I like. The three songs that rank as the last three for me, I just don't happen to like them that much, not really because of the collaboration on them, but just how they sound doesn't do too much for me. Next to them is Hamburg Hotel, which I like, but not as much as the first two tracks and the last three tracks.

So that is five tracks I like, one track I think is alright, two tracks I think are so-so, and one that I can tolerate but don't really care for. It ends up being my least favorite UW album (at least, at the moment it is) out of the six released so far, as I usually like or really like most songs (or all the songs) on the other five albums.

I'd say I'd rate this album as three stars out of five, which is by no means bad. Three stars out of five for an album is, to me, a solid and decent album.

Re: why i think why a lot of y'all don't like the new record and a lot do
 

what are the synth plops everyone keeps referring to?

i would agree that some tracks just don't have that underworld "you know it's them" shine to it... i think that's why they sought producers to make those songs better.

however, i disagree about between stars. i think it's really cool because it sounds like his life is going nuts and he's SCREAMING AND NO ONE CAN HEAR HIM!!! it's totally beautiful to me. i don't know why so many people think that between stars is total pop or whatever. to me it has the same sentiment as dirty epic.

btw, it is their eighth album =p

Re: why i think why a lot of y'all don't like the new record and a lot do
 

On Bird 1, where normally there would be a snaredrum or handclap, someone thought it would be a good idea to insert a synth-plop(tm) instead. He was wrong.

Re: Barking: The Reviews
 

the band need to move on.
it may not be in a direction that everyone like's but they will never be the 90's underworld, the version many people still want them to be,again.
they're musicians and have changed their style and out put many times over the years and i'm sure they will do it again.
i'm interested 'cause i like to watch the "journey" they're on and i really enjoy it when they change course either in a commercial way (like this album) or delve deep (like river runs).
maybe for every fan they gain with the new stuff they'll lose one as well but thats the way it is if you don't sit still.

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

the synth plop bugs the shit out of me. its so a bizarre sound. its grating almost. still a fantastic track tho.

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

Bird 1 really is still good despite the synth plops. I'm getting used to them.

I do like the album, but OWB (an album several people say they hate) is definitely superior to me. Barkings competition for me is AHDO. Maybe Barking can surpass AHDO for me one day, who knows. I like both of those albums but both are fifth and sixth in rank for me. Like I said, I'm currently feeling Barking as a 3/5 star album (and I feel it will still grow on me some more), and I'd say AHDO is a 3 1/2 star (out of 5) album for me. At one time, I was feeling that AHDO was a 2 1/2 star album to me, so Barking really can grow more on me.

Anyway, ratings aren't really all that important to me, and I don't care to rate albums most times and don't put too much importance on them when I do. I've been giving Barking many listens of late and even if I think it isn't too strong of an album, I do generally enjoy listening to it when I do. Some tracks aren't all that impressive to me, but I am quite happy with Bird 1, ALAF, DJ, Moon In Water, and Louisiana.

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

I REALLY LIKE THE CONTROVERSIAL SYNTH PLOPS

Re: Barking: The Reviews
 

Yes I couldn't agree more.....I'm on this journey with them and as always uw keep changing their style and moving in different directions. Having said all that....

WHERE IS MY BOX SET!!!!?????? HAS ANYONE IN AUSTRALIA GOT IT YET???

Re: Barking: The Reviews
 

I got mine either yesterday or today (Canberra).. yours can't be far off!

Re: Barking: The Reviews
 

OK thanks mate.......EAGERLY AWAITING!!!!................

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

lol @ the phrase "synth plops".. those plops are very Kraftwerk to me and I like 'em.

so I'm new around here (kinda.. lurked from 2003 on, then my account got deleted in the switch from brown to white, and now here I am again), but been a fan since 1996..

didn't realize there was so much hate for OWB. I much prefer it to AHDO (which was at the bottom of their albums for me only until recently.. started listening again and it's not as bad as I thought it was).

As for Barking.. overall, I love it. It was hard at first to get used to the straightforward pop of ALAF, or the fact that Scribble wasn't quite the 2005 live version I've been used to. But honestly - how can you hear "can you feel it?" and "heaven, heaven" in ALAF and not smile? it's so fucking catchy you just want to smash puppies.

Same with Scribble. The video captures the mood perfectly.. screaming "and it's OK.. you give me everything I need" at the top of your lungs in a fast moving vehicle.

Hamburg Hotel and Grace.. solid.

Between Stars made me think of Limmy doing Slam's "This World" (similar choruses). ;) I'm guessing it will be a single.

Diamond Jigsaw screams "single" to me - probably the most accessible UW yet. I do like it, but It's so generic tho.

Love Moon in Water.

The only one I can't stand is the vocals in Louisiana.. I'm hoping that warble effect is indeed an effect. I could tolerate the song without that effect. Looking forward to the instrumental version on the box set.

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

there's just no spark of underworld originality - over-diluted by the collaborators or bereft of spark.

the emperor isn't wearing any clothes.

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

naked as an angel?

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

I can't stand the chorus of ALAF. "can you feel it?" and repeating "heaven" killed an otherwise nice house track. It's about the dumbest sounding thing I've heard from them lyric wise. The bridge lyrics are terrible too. But the verses I feel are nice imagery.

But the worst is Diamond Jigsaw. And I'm not even a PVD hater. It's so generic and forgettable. Blah.

Besides that, I think there are some misdirections on Moon in Water. And Hamburg Hotel was really dulled up. Glad for the Essex version.

Love Bird 1, Scribble, Grace, Louisiana.

It's disheartening because I think that without the producers there would have been a better overall sense of satisfaction. I'm not even one asking for another Dubno or STITI but when I listen to OWB I don't imagine the songs any other way, and I don't care to.

Re: Barking -- Some general thoughts
 

I find the album a bit "blah" thus far. Nothing really jumps out at me as a favourite song, wheras for me OWB had about 5 songs I really liked on it. I am not a fan of the new Scribble either - it seems a bit weak compared to You Do Scribble.

Barking is slightly growing but not a lot and certainly no immediate "wow" moments like Dirty Epic, Juanita, Moaner, Beautiful Burnout or even A Hundred Days Off