going lossless

[bryantm3]

i'm not doing this right now because it would be quite an endeavour and *my* hard drive isn't big enough to pull it off. but hard drives are getting big enough now that the advantage of mp3s in their size is no longer useful. there isn't really any point in compromising in sound quality to save space anymore. so the next time i get a computer, with a terabyte or two of space on it, i'm going all lossless because there just isn't any point anymore. lossy formats are so aggravating, the gaps between the songs, not knowing what generation it is, etc.

just out of curiousity, i did a comparison on some of the major formats on a song in iTunes. i started with the mp3 version and converted it to WAV, and then to the various lossless formats, so it may be different when you do it properly. note that the new version of mac os tabulates sizes differently (1 kb = 1000 b versus the conventional 1 kb = 1024 b), so the size will be off, but the ratios are the same.

Song: Breath After Breath — Duran Duran, Length: 4:58
mp3 version: 4.7 MB
WAV version: 52.5 MB
apple lossless version: 36 MB
FLAC version: 35.4 MB
SHN version: 38.6 MB
APE version 31.3 MB

okay, so 52.5 MB would be the original WAV file so here are the percentages of that that these formats take up:

mp3 version: 8.9% of original space
apple lossless: 68.6%
FLAC version: 67.4%
SHN: 73.5%
APE: 59.6%

so if i was to put my entire music library into one of these formats, here's how many times more space i would need:

apple lossless: 7.67 times more space
FLAC: 7.53 times more space
SHN: 8.21 times more space
APE: 6.66 times more space (it's the devil!)

okay, so when were we first able to stuff all the music onto our hard drive in mp3 format without having too little space— 2003, 2004? i went to a website that documented what size hard drive apple computers shipped with in 2004— the iMac shipped with either 60, 80 or 160 GB hard drives. today iMacs ship with 500 GB or 1 TB hard drives.

the high end hard drive of today is on average 6.25 times bigger.
the low end hard drive is 8.3 times bigger, or 6.25 times bigger, depending on the figure you use for 2004.

now for iPods, the main mobile music thingy. in 2004 they ranged from 10-40 GB. now they are 160 GB. that's 4 times bigger, or 16 times bigger.

are we about to reach the time period where this would be feasible? why don't we finally rid ourselves of the shitty mp3 format?

[stimpee]

Feasible? Possible? yes.

But why? Can you tell the difference between mp3@320 and FLAC? And mobile devices dont have as much space as your desktop/laptop and dont like some lossless formats except AIFF/WAV.

[Mike]

For me, i use Apple Lossless, where convenient. Why do i prefer that to AAC or MP3? Well i guess its like an OCD, i know it sounds fine to most people, but i just can't help trying to be a perfectionist.

(Of course, some would say ALAC is not as good as FLAC or WAVE etc.. but to me its all the same, its a digital copy of the original).

[stimpee]

All lossless is the same. there just the method of compression and the level of compatibility. ALAC is only compatible with Apple devices. FLAC is universal (even on Apple, though not "out of the box"), APE is niche, and others like SHN are only used in bootleg trading.

[TheBang]

ALAC would sound identical to a FLAC or WAVE of the same thing. The only difference is convenience. ALAC is supported natively by all the Apple devices (iPad, iPod, iPhone, Apple TV) and iTunes, and it also encodes faster than FLAC on a Mac. As bryantm3 shows, its file sizes are usually comparable to FLAC.

The pluses for FLAC are it's an open-source format, it's more widely traded and supported (outside the Apple ecosphere).

[bryantm3]

Feasible? Possible? yes.

But why? Can you tell the difference between mp3@320 and FLAC? And mobile devices dont have as much space as your desktop/laptop and dont like some lossless formats except AIFF/WAV.

yeah, i kind of can, it bothers me. the main thing is trying to remember how many times the music you have has been compressed. over the years, a CD you uploaded to your computer in mp3 is going to go through a ton of different formats for sharing and editing, mixing, whatnot, and in the end you end up with significantly degraded sound. if everyone just used lossless formats it would be a lot less hassle.

[stimpee]

These days if something gets ripped from CD to 320mp3 then it rarely gets re-encoded. I find it very hard to tell the difference between 320 and FLAC. I think the problem when stuff is encoded that maybe it gets clipped and thats entirely different to rip quality. I think 99/100 you cant tell the diff between 320 and FLAC. Take an ABX test and try.

[bryantm3]

you know of one? i won't be able to do it without skewing the results (since i would encode it myself, i would know the difference).

[stimpee]

For software solutions try WinABX/MacABX or the plugin for Foobar2000, or ABC/HR. Otherwise its expensive hardware solutions.

If youre gonna use something like Winamp and blind test then you need to unpack the mp3 to WAV first. Of course if you know which is playing then its not a blind test, its sighted and will influence your thinking.

[34958hq439-qjw9v5jq298v5j]

Feasible? Possible? yes.

But why? Can you tell the difference between mp3@320 and FLAC? And mobile devices dont have as much space as your desktop/laptop and dont like some lossless formats except AIFF/WAV.

Exactly! I don't think MP3 is a "shitty" format at all. 128 kbps (as the Duran Duran one you mentioned above must have been, if it's less than 5 MB for a 5 minute song) obviously sounds like crap, but once you get into 192 or above (or any kind of VBR at 224 on up) it becomes incredibly difficult to tell the differences. I've heard many times of "double blind" tests where people not only can't tell the difference but usually go for whichever one is played louder.

[Caprice]

I went loss less last year and it has been great! granted I got some sweet monitors to hear my music through, but the music never sounded so deep!

[m.g.]

I've just watched that (http://vimeo.com/31191130) and I think it can be interesting for further information on the lossless/mp3 subject... It's a recent 2h interview of Tony Andrews, boss and founder of a company called Funktion One... :)